As many of us know, Swami Lakshmanananda ji is killed by the Christian missionaries in Kandhmal of Orissa. He was one of the persons who served the Vanavasis in that region. He started many service projects for Vanavasis and tried to protect the Vanavasi culture. He created awareness about the fraudulent techniques of Christian missionaries to convert innocent Vanavasis into Christianity. Under his guidance Vanavasis got organized and started telling Christian missionaries ‘No entry’. This made Christian missionaries unhappy and they hated him to the core and tried to kill him in December 2007 also. There were many attacks on him by them and luckily he survived, but this time it was misfortune of Hindus that we lost him. As an impact of his killing, a lot of sorrow and anger among the Hindus of Kandhmal which took the form of violence.
If there is some violence in Orissa there is a reason behind it. It is the killing of Swamiji, which is causing the violence there; not the hatred towards Christians without any reason. Hindus are tolerant by nature and this sort violence does not take place without any reason. Just imagine that the good work that Swamiji would have done for the people of that area, that his killing has created such a great anger among Hindus.
Now, Christian missionaries and churches have called to protest the attack on Christians in Orissa, by closing the schools run by missionaries and churches through out Bharat on 29th August 2008, Friday. If they have protested the killing of the Swamiji, it could have been justified, because he was the one who was serving the people by starting a huge number of social service projects. Rather they protest the protesters who protested the killing of a social worker, who did not create any hatred in the society, who was struggling to bring peace among the Vanavasis.
This is something that all of us have to think seriously about. If they have to protest, they can always ask their followers to do so. They do not have any right to ask the schools, in which children from all religions study, to close and protest the Orissa violence. They cannot do it just because it is run by them. Parents send their children to study in schools and not to participate in the religious protests. Have they taken the permissions from the parents of the kids? Have they taken permission from the education department? Is it not illegal to do so? Many questions arise. We all have to think about it and protest. You can write letters / emails to Education department, Governor, Chief Minister and Prime Minister and ask them to take action on these people. It may not stop them doing so tomorrow, but it creates an impact on them. It stops them using the schools for such protests in future. Circulate this message among others too.
Yes,
we should make this a norm. nobody should make others to protest for one’s sake especially if it ends in violence. for eg. A hartal by any party- only the party members should follow the hartal, not opening the shops, not going to work. If an organization calls for protest, they should not disturb others. let them protest but not at the cost of others. we should start it immediately
Dear Thammayyaji ,
Read your thought provoking article and you are requested to clarify the following points.
1)when did the swamiji started his samaj seva?
2)Can the Adivaasis be considered as any particular relegion?
3)some of them do balidaan of Cows.
4)If samaj seva(by sanyasis) was there since when it was required whether people might have changed only for currency?,.there was a friendly meeting of christians and RSS at Bangalur few years back.At that time one christian asked aquestion to RSS leaders”‘ I belong to North east and in our child hood we required your service for survival and you were nowhere there and we changed to christianity. Now I am the DGP of this state. Then do you have the moral right to question the christians”. No body could answer that quetion!(and very interesting point is the very Christian is a BJP MP today!).
5)Changing to Christianity actually changed their social status by getting education .Actually did this made them convert.
6) Any thing is wrong ,when thousands of people are affected
protesting peacefully.
7) For getting independence we fought without shedding blood.So democracy is still alive in Bharath.But not in some countries who got indpce with us.Thimmayyaji,
Just imagine muslims,christians,Sikhs,Parsis,Jains,Budhists all are kicked out of India .Will the remaining people can live peacefully for ever? NO because then they will take sword to start caste war.In most part of India The distance between caste is more than the distance between religions.Am I correct?
So let us hindus muslims,Christians and all others live together happily for ever beleving in their respective rlgns.
AM NOT A christian and a am a friend of thammayya .Take my note positively.start MADHAV SEVA MAANaVA Seva then nobody will convert for money.Be available for needy hindus when they need you .
Dear Manjalyian,
Here are the answers for your questions.
1) As mentioned in the writeup above, he started service activities from 1960′s.
2) The term ‘aadivasi’ is not correct. Britishers introduced this term to say that there are the original residents of this land and others came from outside (Aryan invasion theory) This proved to be wrong by modern hiostorians. You can google to get more info about it. So, the right term is ‘Girijan’ or ‘Vanavasi’. They are Hindus, as the nature worshipping is part of Hindu tradition. You can see Surya, Chandra and other Navagrahas, Naga, Gomata, Hanuman, Ashwattha worshiping in Hundus. Vanavasis culture is different as they remained separate from the other part of the society and their culture and tradition is not modified for a long time. Where as, the practices in so called civilised people got changed over a period of time.
3) Yes…some of them do that, because they do not have anything else to eat. That practise got started in between, is what the historians say. It is not part of the original practice. There is no one, who told them, it was not correct to do so, for a Hindu. So, they continued it. Now, there is an awareness and they are stopping it.
4)You are right. If we (Hindu society as a whole) had provided the service they needed in time, they would not have converted to Christianity. We were not organized, that time and there was not much of social service during those days. Now, that RSS, Ramakrishna Mission, Vavanasi Kalyana Parishat and such organizations are doing a good job. The converted people also started coming back. We should be happy that at least someone has started looking at Vanavasis and we should support them. Better late than never.
5)Yes. It changed their social status in many places and not in all the places. Example, even today Dalit christians are treated as Dalits by upper caste christians, they have separate churches and so on. This definitely woulod have made them convert into christianity. Again, lack of facilities and support from Govt. and society.
6) I did not understand this point.
7)We shed blood for getting independence. I suggest you read the history completely. This year is 150th year First war of independence. Starting from this war, through out hundreds years from then, there was a lot of wars where bharateeyas died for this country. Even British administration agreed that they are giviing independence to india because there are not in a position to controil the anger that indian army soldiers have on British and voilences in otehr part of the india. Please be clear that Gandhiji’s ahimsa movement is not the sole reason for independence. But, he created an awareness among people. Thats true and its credible.
Other part – I am not telling that all the non-hindus should be driven out of this land. Thats not logical also. All should leave together in this land peacefully. But, whom should we teach this. Hindus never opposed christians and muslims or any other minorities. If that is the case, there would have been no churches and no mosques today. We are ok with any other religion. But, they are not ok to leave with others. That’s the nature of those religions. christians and muslims think to get peace entire world as to be converted to Christianity and Islam respectively. That is the problem. They say ‘ours is the only way to reach god’. We say, ‘your way is also right, my way is also ight. there are multiple ways to reach god. there is only one god, but, people call by different names’ So, we do not have problem with any number of religions. Only thing is that they should accept that there are other ways. Then they do not have any need to convert others. So, christianity and islam has to be modified to suit india or to suit any such country where they co-sxist with people other religions.
And, you are right that castism is another problem with us. But, still not as danger as that of these problems of conversion and terrorism. we have to unite Hindus on the basis of Dharma. Thats the need of the hour. Then only Bharat can stand up and become a world leader.
I tried my level best to answer your points.
Here is another link on the same issue. May be interesting for you.
http://jataayu.blogspot.com/2008/08/school-shut-down-by-christian-bodies-to.html
My replies to manjalyian..
1. from 1960′s
2. The tribals are very much part of Hinduism.. the missionaries are attempting to project them separate from hinduism.
3. Its an exception and may be influenced by 200 years of british christian rule.
4. This is one of the important question that’s used for undermining hindus. Let me answer that..
Firstly, the entire Hindu/Muslim india was enslaved. All its resources are unsurped, and most hindus themselves are suffering from poverty created by britishers. So you cant blame hindus as neglecting vanvasis.
Secondly, the hinduism is not an organised religion like christianity. It itself was under siege where temples are confiscated till now.
Thirdly, it was the christians who got most of government support both before and after independance. But they highly misused that to tempt the tribals and convert them. I could not consider theirs as service at all. Its like capturing an elephant and making it hungry for weeks and then slowly giving food to them.. is it service?
Fourthly, the very concept of social status is a western class based structure.. its non-existent in Indian society. Here, the most highly learned men lived a simple life.. there was no segregation based on status.. So the point that they gave social status itself is an totally unfair discrimination.. like those who converted are treated highly (so high social status) and those NOT yet converted are inferior.. Unfortunately our people also bought that argument..
And lastly, i would reply to that DGP.. i can provide you crores of rupees to you.. a powerful post in government.. will you ever throw away your mother?
Its the missionaries and britishers who collapsed our education and social system, and established their own institutions.. should we accuse them for destroying our society or should we praise them for feeding food?
How should we treat the one who destroys our house, and later offers a small hut to live in?
I will leave the answer to you..
5. Changing christianity, made them abuse their parental culture. Its this hatred which made them remain christians.
6. Is Seducing a girl in non-violent manner, right or wrong?
Your question itself is illogical.. Protesting is right or wrong, which depends on the purpose.
I will slap you, and you again slap me.. then i start protesting that you beat me.. Am i right?
7. The entire gandhian independance story is a bullshit.. Please try to learn the real history of india.. Please try to learn, why nethaji is not given a right place still now..
Sikhs, parsis, jains, buddhists are part of indic culture.. There is no problem with them.. The muslims and christians are the root problems.. and as per your statement kicking them out of india will definitely bring peace..
But no hindu will do that.. acceptance and embracing is the inherent nature of Hinduism..
So the problem is NOT because of Hinduism.. but because of missionaries preying on Hinduism..
/** So let us hindus muslims,Christians and all others live together happily for ever beleving in their respective rlgns. **/
No hindu has any problem with christians or muslims worshipping their god.. Its they who says “Hindusim is evil.. hindus are idol worshippers.. Only jesus/allah is the true god, and all other gods are false”..
Only because they infringe upon Hinduism, the hindus are retaliating.. if you say let’s all live peacefully, you have to speak to the christians and muslims.. stop conversion, stop bomb blasts.. Everything will be peaceful..
India is a tolerant nation – In no country in the world is religious freedom available to people as it is in India. There are dozens of faiths which all co-exist. Israel has acclaimed India as the only country where Jews have not been persecuted. One of the lost tribes settled in India, and since then the Jews have built synagogues all over the country and are practicing their religion in total freedom. When Parsis – victims of Islamic ethnic cleansing –fled Iran, then sought refuge in India, a Hindu King gave them shelter and ever since, they have been practicing, their religion in total freedom. There are hundreds of tribes who have their own unique religions and they are all free to do what they like. When China occupied Tibet in the 1960’s, India again took in hundreds of thousands of Tibetan Buddhists including the Dalai Lama, who to this day peaceful live in India. In addition, India has for centuries peacefully hosted Muslims, Sikhs, Christians and Jains.
However, Missionaries abuse India’s tolerant nature for conversion. Instead of peaceful co-existing with other religions as millions in India already do, they attempt to decimate all other religions through by conversion.
courtesy : http://www.christianaggression.org/about_why_india.php
I am a christian and I have come from where you hindu have come from and am I am born in the same land where you are born. I have not fallen from the sky onto India nor have I come from abroad. How can you differentiate me from you. Do you own the proprietorship for India? Do you have the ownership certificate? Why are you saying you are hosting me? Then I too have equal right to say I am hosting you. Learn to see people as humans and not as different type of animals. If you dont believe that I am an Indian then have my DNA test and I will spend my money for it. Do you agree to that. If someone is converting why cant you and your leaders sort this matter with them directly. Why are you blaming and attacking other innocent christians. I hope you will never use the word hosting or accommodating christians in the future keeping in mind my above explanation. I have a lot to write but it is 12.30 pm now and am sleepy. I will continue the discussion after seeing your reply. One last thing before going to sleep and that is, christians and muslims saying theirs is true god and others are false is condemnable.
Dear Simon,
I am not able to make out where I referred that we are ‘hosting’ you. I very much agree with you that no one is hosting anyone. If some one has to say such words it can be only to the real minorities like Jews, Parsis, Tibetians and etc, who are from other countries. And, they are the real minorities. I fully agree that christians and muslims in this country have equal right to claim as Hindus, that this country is theirs. That is the need of the hour too. I am with you in this case. I agree that some one should not claim that their God is the only God and other Gods are all false is not right. All paths lead to the same God. Mode of worship may be different. That’s it. Please explain, which one you were referring, when you said ‘hosting’.
Dear Thammayyaji,
I am very much sure that there was a sentence somewhere in your comment that read “We hindus are hosting you christians”. I went through all the above comments once again, despite having a head ache due to lack of sleep last night, but I couldn’t find it. Tell me frankly did you delete it? Please be a sport and tell me the truth.
You said all paths lead to the same God. Can you please tell me where this God is and what is the Gender of the God and whether that God is only for this earth or for our whole solar system? Then what about the costellations? Each one of those has hundreds of solar systems like ours? What about the galaxies which in turn as billions of constellations and finally there are billions of galaxies in the universe. Which part of the universe is God located? Here on earth we look upwards for God thinking that God is in that direction. If it is so is God also rotating with the earth? If we look skywards in the morning you will be facing one constellation and in the evening you will be facing a different constellation due to the revolution of the earth. If God was up at one particular time then after 12 hours we should be looking downward to the earth for God has the earth has made one half revolution. These are some of the doubts haunting my mind since years and I thought I have found a wise man in you who can clarify them. I look forward to hear from you soon.
Come on, If I say something, I stick to that. Tell me, why should I remove something. When I have not been thinking this way, I cannot write such things and when I have not written, no question of removing it.
Coming to your question of GOD. As per my understanding, GOD does not have any form. And, No Adi (start), No antya (end). GOD is GOD for whole universe, which includes anything and everything that you can imagine. And, GOD is above all these up, down left, right. You can look anywhere and pray GOD. GOD is eveywhere (that is called sarvantharyami) GOD is in you, I and every creature of this world. GOD is not in temples, churches and mosques. Those are places where people worship GOD. That’s it. And, coming to idol worship, it is just like you respect your Grandfather’s, Dad’s photo. Idols are something, which are necessary for a common man to realize GOD. For those, who can imagine GOD without, there is no need of idol, no need of temple, no need of pooja. They can do pooja of GOD, prey GOd in their mind (manas) itself. Hindus worship GOd in different forms as per their wish. Those who need vodya they worship in the form of SAraswati, those who need strength prey Hanuman, those who need money prey Lakshmi and so on. We have freedom in worshipping. Any new GOD as per your comfort is ok with Hinduism. At the end, it is clear that there is only one GOD and we call by different names. I suggest you meet any Hindu swamiji who can better answer all your queries. I feel that my underatsnding is too basic that I may not be able to answer all your queries. And, writing here takes a lot of time also.
Simon,
Christianity is a foreign religion.. and you have embraced a foreign religion, either by will or inherited it from your father, or may have converted for some monetory or other benefits.
That’s entirely your personal will or personal rights..
The problem is not you being christian, nor we hosting you.. the problem is the church you are adhering to..
The missionaries, control most of the churches in india.. the majority of churches in south india come under CSI, and in north india come under CNI..
By using enormous resources, they are making all efforts to denigrate hinduism, destroy hinduism, and try convert remaining hindus to christians..
The killing of swamiji is one best example of how they can stooge to such low level..
And again i am stating that we had no problem in you being christian.. But we have problem in the way you react after becoming christian.. the problem is your allegiance to the church that i have stated above.. the problem is your belief in those coward missionaries,
the problem is your silent approval of hindu leaders by missionaries..
the problem is your silent support of church and missionaries denigrating hinduism and hindu gods..
So, please stop talking of logic and inturn try to look at the justice and dharma..
Because you converted, you cannot claim india to be land of christians..
India is still land of Hindus, and you can live peacefully only if the hindus are majority..
Hope, you know the state of christians in pakistan and bangladesh..
You are behaving as though there is nothing wrong on your side and only hindus are villains..
and your silent neglect of the swamy’s murder had proved my point..
If christianity is foreign then why do you use foreign things like, technology, science, astronomy, automobiles, aeroplanes, computers, etc etc etc. I will need a number of pages to write all the things. Why dont you stick to your bullock cart and live a primitive ancient life with your ancient belief?
Whats ur opinion abt the attacks and desecration of christians place of worship. Read http://www.daijiworld.com to know more abt the attacks.
My opinion is, whether Christianity is a foregin religion or not does not matter. Only point I have is why should a Christian feel that non-Christians should be converted to Christianity? Why cannot they worship Jesus and allow others to worship their GODs? That is the fundamental question. That is the basic reason why there are riots in Mangalore, Orissa or anywhere else. This behaviour of Christians (or missioneries) itself shows that christianity is not tolerant to other religions. Since Hindus can co-exist with anyone else, we did not have and do not have any problems being with Christians. But, one should not try to denigrate Hindu GODs to sell christianity. That is the reason why Hingus got angry on the organization ‘New Life’ and started attacking their properties. Even, the same with Orissa. Swamu Lakshmanananda was serviing the tribal. Why should this make chrstians kill him. Rather they should be happy that he is also serving the poor, which they also claim to do. But, the real reason is missioneries are doing conversions using service as a medium, which is not good. And, they cannot tolerate anyone, who is stopping them to do conversion. That made christians kill Lakshmanananda saraswati.
Not all but few fanatic denomintations like New Life & Jevoha’s witness feel that it is their obligation to convert hindus to christianity. I unequivocally condemn it and I think such people are mentally retarded. Those sects are rebels of roman catholic faith and our church has no control over them nor do we have any connection with them. Why can’t the sangh parivar deal with them directly rather than attacking our churches and prayer houses. Why doesn’t your Mahendra Kumar order attacks on such people as and when he hears or learns about the conversions. Does that mean there were no conversions at all? Why all of a sudden he broke the hell loose on the christians. Does is it mean that conversion has nothing to do here and it is the hatred he and some hindus harbour towards the christians. Have you heard any roman catholic church converting hindus? I agree that christianity is not tolerant to hindus but the intolerance meted to christians by hindus is a way too much. If you compare and analyse the intolerance of hindus to their own NATIVE christians with that of christians in western countries to FOREIGN hindus you will realise that hindus have been too harsh to their own native christians. Even hindu scriptures contain hatred. Everyones scriptures contain hatred Just check the following link and read the comments on news.faithfreedom.org to get the first hand information about it. Let humanity be our religion Thammaya. Good night.
I appreciate that you undersatnd the problem and condemn conversions. You want actions to be taken against New life. That’s what bajarang dal did. Out of 13 churches attacked, only one is catholic and Dal has apologized for that. It was not intentional and it is done out of control of bajarang dal. They have made it clear. All other prayer centres are of New Life.
And, What about Christians pelting stones on policemen. 45 policemen are injured and only 30 christians are injured in this incident in Dakshina Kannada. hope you are aware of this. Why did Christians threw stones on police who were trying to control the situation. Is this what christianity preaches? All were catholics and not from new life. Why all churches rang the bell as if something danger is happening? And, you see now bishop asking not to ring bell in any case (it is given in today;s news paper)So, this means that even catholics are responsible for the violence in mangalore and not Hindus. Hindus did not hurt any catholics in these series of attacks
Good that you agree that christianity is not tolerant to other religions. I ama sure you are aware of the blood shed by christianity agaonst Govan Konkani brahmins, what spanish people did in America and what catholics did in australia. All these stories tell that christianity is spread because of violence and killing of non-believers through out the world and not because of the peace message given by christ. Catholics who claim that christianity is a religion of peace have got to answer this.
Hindus cannot hate any other religion. And, it is difficult to believe when you say that hindus are intolerant to christians. Please give examples. I could not open the site you have given. there is some problem it seems. please give the correct URL if which works for you. If hindus were to be intolerant, the christianity would not have been there today in india itself. Hope you understand this. Please give references where Hindu scriptures preach intolerance to otehr faiths. We, hindus ourselves have so many faiths among us and one christianity and one islam does not make any difference, we are ok to live with any one. Only problem is that, those religions are now misusing it.
If you are in India there should not be any problem to open that site. Just add www. before the link. If I add that part to the link my comment gets censored and does not get posted. That is why I have ommitted www. in that link.
Thammaya, tell me if we had not protested so spontaneously in such a huge force wouldn’t the hindu radicals created a carnage of christians in mangalore too just like they did in orissa. Check this link
http://www.persecution.in/node/3084
to know about the carnage in orissa.
As Bajarang Dal told, they did not want to attack on Catholic churches. There target was only new life. Looking at that, I do not think they would have continued attacks on Catholic churches, as there target was only the people who are involved in conversion. I do not support attack on police by Christians in Mangalore. This is not something which is good. There is a reason why bajarang dal attacked new life. But, why police should be targeted for that??
Simon,
CAn you please give me the exact link, where it says Hindu scriptures teach hatred. The link provided by you has so many items and so many comments. It is difficult to search.
Thammaya, please search for the comments of “abeliever” there.
Thammayya where are you? I haven’t heard from you for a very long time.
I am there always !! Still posting on the blog.
Thammayya now you should be convinced that every religion has absurdities, irrationality, illogical things in them after reading the website I referred you to, don’t you?